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KTM 1290R vs 1090R


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This is @FeralCat2Wheels posing next to the 1290R.  She has ridden her 1190R (and other bikes) all over the world and was very excited to get a demo ride.

I got to do a demo ride on both the 1290R and 1090R at Overland Expo West this past weekend.

I will share what I can but this type of mass market demo ride really does no justice to their bikes for the big adventure bike community.  For many reasons, XLADV should have been at the 1090R launch last month where it could have been more thoroughly and properly evaluated.  I would have liked to have tested the bike in real off road conditions, run it through its various modes, experienced the front wheel abs, etc...  And I think you the XLADV member deserves that unbiassed evaluation; one you won't find in the old line magazine press.  We rode for about 19 minutes and were not allowed to take the the bikes out of street mode, nor were able to test it in any type of gravel, sand, mud or hills.  They did say the bikes were outfitted with some of KTM's "PowerParts" but I think the pegs are actually stock and they were quite adequate!  The bash plates are what you'll have to pay extra for, as well as a center stand for the 1090R if you want it.

So all I can really say about the two bikes is that the 1290R, based on its geometry and weight, is probably better suited for the rider who may do a bit off light off road but prefers that street performance.  It had more of a "Duke" feel to it than an "R" feel.  I'd love to take this bike two up on a long trip with some easy national park type dirt roads.  The bars felt way too low in the standing position and when seated, my knee was in much more of an angle.  I'd definitely need risers, a tall seat and even lowered pegs to make this bike suitable for off road.

On the other hand, the 1090R is really better suited for the type of riding I prefer and that's off road.  The standing position feels immediately more natural and comfortable and it was as if I would need no risers at all (okay, maybe an inch).  It does feel like the natural successor to the 990, even more so than the 1190R.  Not sure if anyone in the press ever mentioned this but I will here now; the 1090R is actually a few kg lighter than the 990 was!

I was actually considering selling the 990 at some point this summer and getting the 1090R as the new project bike but I just don't have a good enough feel for what it is to make that type of decision.  Plus, we have even some more exciting bikes coming soon from Yamaha in the T7 and even KTM with their 790 twin this fall.

So that's all I'm really prepared to say about these two bikes at this point.  Like I said, the bikes and you the reader deserve a real evaluation from XLADV and not some mass market 19 minute demo ride.  And this is as far as what I have to say about the bikes will go.  I'm not sharing this out on social media.  If KTM wants an objective account of their bikes, they can invite us to their press launches.  We are in their back yard after all as well as have a much larger reach than a few of the magazines that do get invitations.  But more importantly is the objectivity. ;)

 

 

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On 5/15/2017 at 0:59 PM, 556baller said:

That sucks that KTM is a bunch of wankers, their loss. 

So with regard to the bikes, what do you think they would be like with say the standard $8-10K in parts that a KTM needs to feel legit? My 990 has plenty of life left in it, but I think it's probably my last KTM. There are some many other brands out there that seem to be willing to rise up in order to get a better share of the market. 

KTM's just evolving is all.  They do plan to do more rider outreach and you'll see some of that in the next year (I'm sworn to secrecy).  Perhaps more directly rider related than XLADV.  But things change slowly and I'm sure many decisions end up being made at really high levels that don't have as close of a relationship with the community.  We think it's a fantastic idea but they may have more real business objectives to meet and can't do 100% of their wish list.  The good news is that at least Honda and Ducati (I'm working on Yamaha) are interested in doing more with XLADV and the big bike riding community in the future and I hope to be able to break that news in time as well.

As to the second part of your comment, I honestly don't think the 1290R or 1090R really need that much in extras to get them where a lot of us have our bikes now.  Sure, there's the luggage and skid plate stuff; maybe aux lights but these bikes have really good suspension this time out of the box, great foot pegs, etc...

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Sorry to hear you couldn't switch modes, at all the demos I work, we let the riders play with the buttons. The only rules are, no passing and no wheelies.

I can see why KTM restricts some events from entering the dirt with those, the skill level gap between noob and Mr MX is too great. Luckily nobody has fallen on any of the street demos I've worked. But I've seen 1st hand the guys and gals who can barely ride a Honda Rebel, try riding KTM's demos, it's downright dangerous. I'd hate to see what kind of hero Mr TTR125 would try to be on a 1290. We had one guy who couldn't get a 690 Duke out of the parking lot. One was afraid to go over 40 mph

In 2015 we had to haul a guy out on a backboard to the hospital because he couldn't hold on to a 300XC. Last year someone launched a 450 off a jump and did heavy damage to him and the bike.

KTM also has a new policy due to their insurance company, forbidding any Off-Road demos while other brand bikes are on the track at the same time to reduce the the crash factor.

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The guys running the East Coast demos are a different group, retired pro xc racers, I'm not sure who runs the West Coast gig. They may have different rules concerning the modes and buttons.

Our club, Crow Canyon MC Club, hosts the biggest Off-Road demos according to KTM. Our last event attracted over 700 riders each day, of course not all did the XC/SX demos. We typically have guys waiting 4-6 deep at every bike all day long. They said the Crow Demo at times can be overwhelming.

Now due to insurance, we have to alternate demo rides and open practice on the mx track. The xc demo loop runs all day on its own loop seperated from the A and B loops.

On the street demos they always have 2 extra bikes, us road crew to use. The nice thing about working the demos is getting to ride every bike multiple times, except the 690 Enduro, that thing never gets a break for me to ride!

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I wish I did. According to KTM ,the 1090 will have a true PDS rear shock and the fork will be the Xplor fork unlike the rest of the Adv fleet. I rode the fork at the dealer meeting​ on the new two strokes and didn't find it to be all that bad. It's basically the same tried and true single chamber of the 950/990 and the W line, they just moved the adjusters. Supposedly the same design as the 150-500 XC-W's

 

You have to remember, KTM is trying to price point this bike to make it more affordable so fancy suspension won't be on the spec sheet. However, they claim it's way better than all previous Adv's. Hopefully the rear will be 10x better than the 950/990. My guess is 90% of the bikes sold, will never be used to their potential and will never need anything better for a gravel ride.

 

Don't forget, that article was written by someone who wants you to pay them to fix the suspension. I'd find a write up by someone respected who's not going to profit from the review. It's like the BMW GS vs KTM 1190 where the GS was declared a better Off-Road machine, a first in any review I ever read, then I found out the tester was a sponsored BMW rider!

 

 

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The 4CS was only on the Six Days and SX/XC bikes, never on an Adv or XC-W so the suspension has never been top shelf.

 

The 1190/1290R models had basic forks where the S models of recent had the electronic suspension.

 

So in reality, even though not top shelf, the 1090 will get better suspension than any Adv KTM has ever offered.

 

The majority of the price pointing was the removal of that butt ugly LED headlights and other electronics.

 

What remains to be seen is what valving it comes with. When I can get to a PC I can check and at least see if the rear is 50 or 48 mm

 

 

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All adjusters are now on top, Right is rebound, left is compression. Each fork has different internals as Can-Am had in the last few years of production in 86-87, just no clickers.

The rear shock has two pistons of slightly different diameters, one piston does come into full use til about midway through the stroke to ramp up the compression. Husqvarna used this in the last years of their twin shock era dubbed ITC in 83~84, they worked very well.

I had actually planned to get a new small bore this summer with this suspension but I'm having a hard time justifying it. Right now I have the last XC with PDS, 2011 and I love it. I have a 2011 350 with linkage, not happy with it.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I rode the 1290SA, 1290R and 1090R today.  I'd have to get that SA out on the freeway to see how it works, stints up to 90mph on country roads aren't a good way to get a feel for the bike.  I guess if I were an old fart who was going to riding the freeway at speed all the time, the 1290SA would be ok.  The 1290R?  I don't need that much horsepower.  The 1090 motor was smoother and seemed to have better throttle response down low.  

I can say, the cruise control on the two 1290's would be nice when stuck on the freeway for miles on end.  I use a throttle lock but you constantly have to move it to keep a steady pace.  The only time I think one of those would truly work would be on my old '79 XL125 where I'd lay on the tank and ride throttle to the stops from Akron to Youngstown on the freeway every Thursday.

When jumping back and forth between the 950 and 990, I never felt the difference between the 2 bikes was enough to justify buying a new 990.  I even rode both back to back mutiple tmes around the same loop in WV.  I have two 950 Adventures, one is an 04 with over 126k miles, the other is an 06 S model, the modern equivalent to the R.  So Sunday I rode the newer 950 S not only because the motor is fresher (less than 10k miles), but it has the second generation motor used in the newer 990 models which eliminated most of the vibration and rattles.  It only took one stint of riding the 1090 to realize the power output of that motor is significant enough for me to finally start considering buying a new bike.  On the way home I kept grabbing handfulls of throttle on the 950 and was thinking how slow that bike really felt.

Then today I rode the old girl to work.  She coughed to life and settled into her typical rhythmic rattling while I strapped on my skid lid.  I jumped the 1st set of tracks at 70 mph then seat bounced the 2nd in second gear before heading to the next town thinking "this old girl isn't that bad".

Decisions, decisions, decisions... 

 

Edited by MGorman
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A comparison article on the KTM 1090R vs the Honda Africa Twin.

Key quote: "The KTM is the ideal bike for performance-oriented riders who are willing to pay more for its additional horsepower for the street, versatile riding modes, higher fuel capacity and tubeless tires, and—above all—who can handle its 35-inch seat height."

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