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2016 Klim Adventure Rally - not waterproof.

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Waterproof... Or not at all, at least as far as the sleeves are concened.

Always have wet arms, when it rains. Doesn't make a difference if it is a drizzle or a storm. Photo taken after less than 1 hour riding in very light rain. Thank you, Klim.

Then again, how can a jacket be waterproof, when the 4 zippers on the sleeves' air intake vents are not - contrary to those in the back... Or on the emergency/ID pocket (duh).

Will be taking this up with the dealer I bought it from to start off with. And have opened a case with Klim directly.

Slightly fed up at this stage :angry:

59708d46b019f_DominiqueJOSEPH-20juillet2017.jpg.cb86205b07e478064d9af67b020701b4.jpg

Edited by beemer bunny
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PS:

How on earth can this be waterproof? This air intake vent zipper is located at the level of the upper arm, facing forward.

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2 hours ago, beemer bunny said:

PS:

How on earth can this be waterproof? This air intake vent zipper is located at the level of the upper arm, facing forward.

 

If they're YKK AquaSeal, they should be.

I have some similar looking vent zipper on my Stadler Course pants and they've been waterproof through multiple-hour downpours.

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this is the description of the zippers in question, taken from the klim website. no mention of aquaseal.

although the 2 zippers on the back and the zipper on the emergency/ID pocket are definitely the water resistant type (see photos). not the ones on the sleeves - which are as exposed as can be...

HEAVY DUTY YKK® ZIPPERS THROUGHOUT

HIGHLY WATER RESISTANT YKK® VISLON IN EXPOSED AREAS

IMG_3961.thumb.jpg.de307baad39cc5afbfd23be846eabecb.jpg

IMG_3962.thumb.jpg.636506512769de0a294e9fd1cbbb9116.jpg

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Got the Klim Rally 2 suit ( the 2nd Gen 2014) for a year now, and so far the sleeve vents have been waterproof - as long as I carefully stick the zip handles up into the zipper garages.

My only gripe with the gen 2 jacket is water ingress through the neck, due to the complex Leatt exchangable neck gaiters design.

I get wet on the chest area due to the velcro neck not closing properly. Will experiment with a separate Rukka Gore-Tex neck gaiter to check alternative remedies

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I must commend Klim for excellent warranty followup on my first gen 1 suit. The early batches had failing zip handles, fluffing Gore-Tex fabrics and unfunctioning Gore LockOut closures. They simply warrantied the whole suit and sent me a complete new one after a couple of weeks deliberations.

 

In your case it appears clear warranty case reasons on failing sleeve zippers. Also remember to wash the whole suit regularly and dry in tumble dryer on medium temperatures to regain water repellent Gore-Tex protection.

 

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so i opened a case with Klim at the end of last week and sent a number of photos that were requested.

i just received their response, which follows:

Hello Dominique,
Thank you for submitting a warranty case with us. After evaluating this case, we want to let you know that the external zippers of the jacket are water resistant but unfortunately they are not water proof. This could be part of the issue you are having. However, if you would like to ship your jacket to a testing facility you can do so. We have provided the address and contact information for the closest facility to you in case you would like to contact them.

i will not obviously bother sending the jacket to a facility to get it tested. since they confirm it is not waterproof... why bother?!

so the jacket is marketed as, and i quote (copy/paste from their website):

The all-new Adventure Rally Jacket from KLIM® enjoys fourth-generation technology to bring you the ultimate global riding experience. Perfected in material, design and construction to be the one garment that can take you anywhere, from around-the-world trips to the brutal Dakar Rally.

EXTERIOR FEATURES

  • GORE-TEX® 3-LAYER PRO SHELL ARMACOR™ FOR WATERPROOF AND OUTSTANDING ABRASION AND TEAR RESISTANCE
  • HEAVY DUTY YKK® ZIPPERS THROUGHOUT
  • HIGHLY WATER RESISTANT YKK® VISLON IN EXPOSED AREAS

well sure... so it's waterproof, but it's not really waterproof after all.

there are some highly water resistant zippers, but definitely not in the exposed areas (see photos above of the back zipper and the emergency card/ID pocket).

so great for a around-the-world trip, as long as you avoid rainy days (even light ones...) and rainy seasons. or add a waterproof layer above your very expensive and supposedly waterproof jacket.

their response and lack of concern is disappointing to say the least. i very much doubt i shall ever purchase anything from them ever again. and will certainly not advertise/recommend their gear to my friends and acquaintances.

i had left a good review of the jacket shortly after i bought it, which was published on their website. i did also leave an addendum review last week with regards to this zipper issue. quite unsurprisingly, this has not been published - yet anyway. which is quite in line with their response.

marketing at its worst.

 

 

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I had entered the product in our review system and noticed this sentence copied from their site into the description: "The Adventure Rally Jacket prepares you for anything Mother Nature can throw your way. Truly the pinnacle of jackets."

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Well, rain does not seem to be included in their description. But apparently, no one told Mother Nature to stop throwing it at us ^^
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thought i'd give you the opportunity to share a good laugh.

the fact that my arm air vent zippers are apparently not even water-resistant doesn't count for anything :wacko:

**********************************************

JULY 25, 2017 - email from Klim to myself

Hello Dominique,
Thank you for submitting a warranty case with us. After evaluating this case, we want to let you know that the external zippers of the jacket are water resistant but unfortunately they are not water proof. This could be part of the issue you are having. However, if you would like to ship your jacket to a testing facility you can do so. We have provided the address and contact information for the closest facility to you in case you would like to contact them. (address of the testing facility removed)

**********************************************

JULY 26, 2017 - email from myself to Klim

Thank you for your response.

To be quite frank with you, I do not really see the point in sending my jacket to a testing facility to test some zippers that are only water-resistant... Which I might add is very disappointing for a jacket of this price and marketed for round-the world trips and as being able to withstand any and all weather conditions.

Testing it will only confirm what I know already, i.e. that my arm air vent zippers are not even water-resistant (this has been thoroughly tested by myself on more than one occasion) and that, not being waterproof, at some point, water will seep through them, no matter what.

The only question I now have is what will Klim do about my case if I do indeed send it to the testing facility and they confirm that water seeps through? Because since you state that they are not waterproof, leaks can definitely be expected. So in essence, there is no case...

In light of this, would you still replace or repair my jacket?

Thank you for your response on the above.

**********************************************

JULY 26, 2017 - email from Klim to myself

Hello Dominique,
Sorry, I didn't specifically state in the previous email that if you felt that you where experiencing leakage other that in the zipper areas that you could send it for testing to the facility. It sounds like you are fairly certain the jacket is leaking through the external zipper sites and we have discussed those areas are water resistant verses waterproof, I don't suppose you would want to send this in for testing.
If you do find that you are experiencing leakage from another area of the jacket that is not coming from the external zippers, you could re-submit a case and if it was to be tested and a manufacturing or material defect was found, then we would repair or replace your jacket.
I hope this helps clear the confusion. Feel free to contact us if you have any other questions.
Thank you!

Edited by beemer bunny
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This is beyond ridiculous. My gen 2 jacket is waterproof on the sleeves, indicating your jacket is a faulty product with non-functioning YKK zips or seams. Since our jackets are similarly designed ( minus the Leatt-compatible collar on mine ) your jacket should be ditto waterproof on sleeves. Same two zippers on each sleeve, and my jacket ( the 2014 design gen 2 ) only lets in water through the collar velcro in front. Your jacket has a simpler non-Leatt collar and should actually work better in that respect.

If understood correctly you bought it via a French distributor. I bought my gen 1 suit in july 2010 from Adventure-Spec in UK, and when opening a warranty case in 2012 due to the deficiencies listed in previous post - I simply let Adv.Spec take the debate with Klim. After 8 weeks Klim simply sent me a new suit - no questions asked. At that point the Gen 1 suit had got its well deserved flak on its own thread on advrider.com - and the initial batch proved non-satisfactory in quality control. The first iteration of gen 2 that was to be launched winter 2013 was actually declined and postponed because Klim couldn't accept the standard of delivery from the Chinese factory. Hence my 2014 gen 2 is actually a true gen 3, while your 2016 design is a true gen 4. It should therefore be an improvement, and definitely not leak like you describe.

I'd advise you let the French dealership take the warranty case for you versus Klim. Send it back to your dealer and let them take the case for you.

Here's my response from Klim concerning the famous "monkey paws" on gen 2 jackets; not unlike the dodgy answer you got.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/klim-adventure-rally-2-jacket-review.952669/page-9#post-30338700

 

Edited by bimmkatoomer
Some wrong wording corrected.
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Klim confirmed in their emails to me (see above) that they are only water-resistant - there are NO waterproof zippers on the adventure rally. especially in the exposed areas, such as the arm air vents where i have the leaks.

additionnally, i can confirm that mine are not even water-resistant ^^

there is also NO specific mention in the description of the jacket on their website of AquaSeal zippers:

  • HEAVY DUTY YKK® ZIPPERS THROUGHOUT
  • HIGHLY WATER RESISTANT YKK® VISLON IN EXPOSED AREAS

as for the french dealer, his only response was to open a case with Klim - thank you very much and goodbye.

that's ok. i am putting together another set of gear i will purchase shortly, as soon as the jacket i want is back in stock, for my 6 month trip next year.

and i'll get a waterproof over-jacket to wear over the "waterproof" Klim, when it rains.

some people suggested i sell it. but i refuse to sell a defective piece of gear to another rider.

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I would chuck it in the washing machine, tumble dry it as per Gore-Tex instructions, and eventually treat the leaking area with waterproofing sealant - if the warranty process becomes too cumbersome.

I find it rather disturbing that a gen 4 AR should be treated like a non waterproof item due to the use of YKK Vislon zippers.

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it has already been washed and tumbled dried on numerous occasions as per instructions. it never helped with that problem in any way.

and it's going to be hard to use waterproof sealant on a plastic zipper. that gets opened and closed on a regular basis.

as far as the warranty process goes, i just got an email from another person at Klim. my case has apparently been escalated one step higher. i have provided more answers to additional questions they had.

fingers crossed that this goes somewhere eventually.

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If you've narrowed the leakage points to the zipper itself, and not the seams, you may have a case. I'm totally with you on this matter, since my gen 3 (2) jacket so far has proven the YKK sleeve zippers waterproof. Showcasing the Vislon zippers as water resistant, not waterproof - simply disqualifies the gen 4 jacket as a true all weather garment, and definitely not as a good investment for long, multi-month touring trips.

That would be a downer for further AR suit sales, and would narrow the user segment to rally raid racing and non inclement weather trips.

There must be obvious reasons why the AR appears very rare among profiled RTW and long distance trips. One is the price tag, another the complexity of the jacket. The latest Badlands jacket had IMHO a too short collar, and therefore I went with the AR 3 because of the taller collar and my experience with the original 2010 AR 1.

Edited by bimmkatoomer
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