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@rtwPaul I saw that, the guy was just a douchebag man. And he quote you in a post to Lisa 2wheelnomad who has some of the highest numbers of sponsors from all the riders I know. :D 

It is due to your exposure that he knew about you for a start and I wonder if he told Lisa she is a mooch.. Sometimes the brain hurts from what people come up with. 

Agree with your comment. But wait there's more. First thing is there is nothing wrong with sponsorship or getting stuff for free from a company or parcel sponsorship or a generous discount for photos, content, exposure or a review in return. It is part of every companies marketing mix since capitalism started. Every sportsman including the Dakar boys as example does it. You do not have to apologise for that whether they contacted you or you them, full stop. 

What is different is that our adventure rider social club is not a big market so we have many small players, yeah there's TT and KLIM and so on but as a whole it is not a big thing as in other activities like 4x4 and RV's and stuff. So how do these relatively small players get their stuff noticed without blowing the budget on mega $ magazines? Social media and the internet have leveled the playing field for them and allowed them to also get their name out there through using people like you to be sponsored. 

I think where the hate thing comes in is that as I mentioned many of the riders are not marketers and many of the small businesses does not know their way around marketing and advertising and social media use and etiquette. So they spammed the place up and it got people's back hairs up. Two, three years ago there was a massive amount of people being sponsored and it was utter agony to look at FB each day. There are still some that just does not get it and spam the place up. It died down a bit the last two years. 

And also you had the those same people doing reviews and punting stuff without being honest. They would never say Sena is shit or TT never replaced their shocks as example. I know of so many incidences where people never spoke out about the shit they had with products. Not once of stuff, real bad inherent problems that is worth mentioning about a product. That made people distrust the entire sponsorship thing and why they call them sellouts and stuff. Even now, you would get better service being sponsored than not. And I know that through experience. I know of a sponsored couple that got new saddlebags and not two months later wrote a stunning positive review on them. But those same bags I know from long term users fell apart and not just with one incident a few I that I spoke off. That is the issue here, some people are just not good to have as sponsored riders. 

As I have said in my initial article I wrote last year, there is a lot of benefits for both parties but the sponsorship thing needs to mature with this industry and hopefully it is on the right track. Brands are more cautious and attentive of who and how they sponsor and how they and the person must work together. @Eric Hall and I spoke about it that there are people like him out there that can help small businesses to learn and manage this properly. And hopefully as Egle's article was well written people can see it is also not just about getting free stuff there are pitfalls with it, she presented all the sides of the issue. 

If you understand and work with good brands and know why you want sponsorship then it can be a fun thing to do. 

In aaaaaany case I have a RTW trip to plan :D

1sn1yw.jpg

Edited by michnus
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Just from people like Ed March who look down their noses at sponsored riders.  They are free to feel whatever they want but if I have a decent sized following and can take a picture and tell a story then I'm not going to feel bad if someone wants to help me with my trip in exchange for some content and exposure.  I actually couldn't stand Alex Chacon for the longest time but once I started studying this thing (and actually met the guy) it make a lot more sense to me.  It's just kind of a purist, AOLrider, Noah Horek kind of mindset where you have to be completely self supported to be credible.  I know a lot of sponsored riders I feel are credible... others not so much.  To each his own.  Ride your own ride.

Edit: Stephanie gave me some crap too about it until I pointed out the sponsors she has on her website, lol

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Guest rtwPaul
11 minutes ago, Eric Hall said:

Just from people like Ed March who look down their noses at sponsored riders.  They are free to feel whatever they want but if I have a decent sized following and can take a picture and tell a story then I'm not going to feel bad if someone wants to help me with my trip in exchange for some content and exposure.  I actually couldn't stand Alex Chacon for the longest time but once I started studying this thing (and actually met the guy) it make a lot more sense to me.  It's just kind of a purist, AOLrider, Noah Horek kind of mindset where you have to be completely self supported to be credible.  I know a lot of sponsored riders I feel are credible... others not so much.  To each his own.  Ride your own ride.

Edit: Stephanie gave me some crap too about it until I pointed out the sponsors she has on her website, lol

this is the same Ed March who tells everybody that he travels cheap and then tells everyone not to spend money on anything - but is wearing $630 helmet and $1500 of Rukka gear...yep! His gear cost more than my current bike, lol

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@Eric Hall yeah I don't really understand that kind of argument but okay. I get the feeling there are some jealousy issues there. First off, myself and Paul as example, whatever sponsorship we can get can not make up for the money we spend or invested in our own trips. It's not even 2.5% of the cost of our trip. So why think you are special being not supported?

Most importantly it is MY trip, I am also absolutely self supported, I am riding just like he is, I am overlanding and travelling just like he is doing does that make me less worthy? I pay my own bikes, fuel, stay, meals, shipping, opportunity cost of not working, cameras, kit and stuff. If I get a few things for free in return for photos, content or reviews W7F is wrong with that? I write articles to magazines for beer money, so that is also frowned upon? 

 

Edited by michnus
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What I love most about travel is the change in perspective but I'm truly amazed sometimes at some peoples' steadfast commitment to their pre-conceived notions and stereotypes.  For example, @michnus once said the country that surprised him the most was the US because it wasn't anything like he'd heard it was.  Others seem like they're always "right" and cling to the stereotypes

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Guest rtwPaul
2 minutes ago, michnus said:

@Eric Hall yeah I don't really understand that kind of argument but okay. I get the feeling there are some jealousy issues there. First off, myself and Paul as example, whatever sponsorship we can get can not make up for the money we spend or invested in our own trips. It's not even 2.5% of the cost of our trip. So why think you are special being not supported?

Most importantly it is MY trip, I am also absolutely self supported, I am riding just like he is, I am overlanding and travelling just like he is doing does that make me less worthy? I pay my own bikes, fuel, stay, meals, shipping, opportunity cost of not working, cameras, kit and stuff. If I get a few things for free in return for photos, content or reviews &%$#@! is wrong with that? I write articles to magazines for beer money, so that is also frowned upon? 

 

go back home and watch tv, you're getting too interesting...let someone else have a go!!!

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3 minutes ago, Eric Hall said:

What I love most about travel is the change in perspective but I'm truly amazed sometimes at some peoples' steadfast commitment to their pre-conceived notions and stereotypes.  For example, @michnus once said the country that surprised him the most was the US because it wasn't anything like he'd heard it was.  Others seem like they're always "right" and cling to the stereotypes

That truly I can say @Eric Hall travelling made me rethink many of my own believes and values. Stuck into a stereotype believes are not good for the body and mind. :D

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Product testing is what I was after.  I want to run things through the paces, abuse the shit out of them and be able to help with actual R&D.  That kind of thing is fun as hell and the design process is interesting to me.  That's just how my mind works.  I ended up with sponsorship and when that product failed, the reason was ignored and a replacement that was exactly the same was sent back.  They did provide a new oil pan and all parts to me though.  That was awesome.  However, not revising the product showed me that making money was more important than making a proper product.

I admit, I was one of those spammers.  Why, because I didn't know any better and was just doing as I was instructed things needed to be done.  Idiot.  I'm all for businesses handing out product to people and telling them to run the gear through its paces and let us know what you find.  That's awesome.  Now that I'm back to doing the posts as I want them to be only, I've restricted all of my old posts on FB so only friends can see them instead of public, I removed nearly 5,000 followers from FB down to just actual friends that I know and people that I follow, and just my IG is public now.  I may not get approached by any other products but I'm okay with that.  So far, it hasn't seemed to stop them.  

A lot of people have no clue how often companies are willing to give away their stuff just for a "review" about how great they are.  I know what kind of ear plugs work for me and what don't.  I got a DM on Instagram the other day wanting to give me a set of plugs if I posted about them.  I told them my response about going to tell it like it is, if they don't stay in place or aren't as sound deadening as my others, than I'm going to say so.  They passed after that.  Couple days later, I see a post from one that I follow about how incredible the plugs are.  I lol'd for real.  It's lame that being a free gear whore is more important than integrity anymore.  I fell into it admittedly and it's greasy feeling, like a used car salesman. 

What's shit is when people take a product, don't run it through it's paces truly, then rave about something being the best in the world.  It's sad that those "reviews" hold weight with a lot of people though.  When someone is talking about crash bars being incredible but the bars don't have a single blemish on them because they've never had to prove themselves, that "review" isn't worth shit.  

@rtwPaul i love the name 2scam! hahaha!!   

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I'm not sponsored by anyone...in fact XL just reposted a pic I took yesterday it it received more likes on the XL IG than I have followers :lol:

I dumped FB years ago and haven't looked back but since IG is FB owned I guess I'm still there to some extent

Reading the discussion here has been very entertaining as well as informative.  Wouldn't mind sponsorship but would not be nice just because of that.  I find the majority of my hashtags (far too many most of the time) are not for products but how the photo and time make me feel.  I also follow many non moto related people/pages because they are of interest to me or have really cool photos.

Enough of my ramblings....back to regularly schedule postwhoring!!!! :wacko: 

Edited by MtnRider
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Guest beemer bunny

i was recently contacted by someone involved with the lonerider tents. he wrote that he liked my IG account and would i agree to post something about the lonerider tent. he also stated that he would be happy to send me a high resolution photo for said post.

my response was along the lines that:

1. i only posted about gear and products that i actually bought, used and believed in. as i hate to depend on anyone or feel like i owe anything to anyone, i buy my own stuff and can't really be bothered to review them in-depth either. however, i do a lot of research before actually buying anything. and no, their tent wasn't even close to being on my list of "maybe".

2. that my own personal belief, having seen them in real life nevertheless, was that their lonerider tent was too bulky and too heavy. considering that bulk and weight are the archenemy when traveling far and long.

3. that my bikes were not made out of sugar, didn't melt when it rained and therefore didn't need a "garage" while on the road.

4. that i disliked the name "lonerider" (even though i ride alone about 90% of the time ^^)

that pretty much ended the conversation. although the guy was polite about it and said that he would pass my comments on - which i doubt he did. but let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

so there are some people out there who are trying to make you feel extra special and like they're doing you a favor by sending you a high resolution photo of their product (which you do not own and do not use, and which they will not be providing, whether for free or at a reduced price), so that you can post it on your social media account and generate publicity for them?

yeah right...

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Damn @beemer bunny I never thought brands would go that low. I mean you just send people a pic and ask to repost. That's maybe part of this entire issue, it is unethical and just plain wrong and makes a joke of it all. I don't like the tent either as it's too bulky and too big and for the love of Zuess why do you have to park your bike in garage? There's no need for it. I wrote this article on tents and wanted to use them as example as what not to use on a long trip. But guess by how many they sell people obviously think it is worth while. Glamping would be more fitting :D

@Polar Nomad sponsorship was easy for us when we had our company but testing people were an issue and even more crucial to screen. It's easy lining people up to destroy a product for testing, which most think is what a brand wants. What we wanted was people with technical minded abilities, people that could give proper valuable feedback, they did not necessarily had to know fabric specs but people that will use the stuff in ways it will be used in the real world and could give feedback and suggestions based on how they used it. Those are valuable people to have onboard a brand!

Our sponsorship we gave noobs 30-50% discount as a start. Reason being that if they only last 2 weeks we haven't lost that much. Also free stuff have zero value, they will throw stuff away as easy as they got it. They show zero commitment from their side when they get free stuff. Paying for it at least they have invested in what they said they will do. The people we got a good relationship with over time we sponsored 100%. I am a big believer in sponsorship in our sport, hopefully it will mature and brands will get people on board with good social media skills that won't spam the place up and will add value for the entire community. It is great to see so many new small businesses popping up in this market. 

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@beemer bunny I'd have said yes!  Then posted the picture with a caption along the lines of "This is the tent that fully copied Redverz' tent but used lower quality materials in the design.  However, still copied it so much that they lost in a lawsuit and a very significant portion of every one of their sales of this tent goes to Redverz." hahahaha

@michnus That's exactly who I'd like to be.  I don't want to just destroy a product just to destroy it.  Any fart sack is capable of doing that.  I like just riding my ride and doing before and afters of products. 

As for the massive tents, I actually like them sort of.  I'm looking to get one to use as a base camp while truck camping basically.  This next summer I'm looking to take my Tacoma, throw a dual sport in the bed of the truck, a good cooler full of tasty vittles, and whatever else I feel like hauling because I'm in a truck.  I've been doing a bunch of longer trips and want to use the truck and a base camp to do "wagon wheel" style trips next year.  Park the truck and base tent in one spot for a week or so and just do out and back day trips on the dual sport.  When the weather sets in and you're set in one spot for a few days, having that insane amount of extra space is really nice to hunker down in to wait out the storm.  

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@Polar Nomad I am sure there must be smaller companies that you can approach for that purpose? ;)

If you have a truck there are better tents than that to use surely? If using a truck to make a basecamp, man, I will go full out glamping :D

It is interesting you and @beemer bunny say about Lonerider and Redverz, I thought it was the same damn company. Did Redverz have a patent or something on it? How would they be able to sue just on copying them? I never knew it was two different companies and that they had a barn brawl over it. When did this happen?

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@michnus I'm not sure when it happened or of the exact particulars.  Next time that I talk with Christine (Redverz) I'll have to ask her.  It was quite a while back that I'd heard about it though.  Redverz is a company in Denver.  MotoTent / Lone Rider is a European company I believe.  I have the Redverz Hawk II tent and like it very much.  It's not the lightest or pack down all that small but it does check off every other box that I want in a tent.  I'm a bit of a tent whore and have way too many.  Constantly finding one that has something I want more than the other.  I currently own tents from MSR, Big Agnes, Hilleberg and Redverz.  I really can't say 100% one way or the other if the lawsuit is true and that 50% of Lone Rider garage tent sales go to Redverz.  I find it very interesting though if it is true because as much as I love the Hawk II tent, it's very very similar to the Hilleberg Allak tent that I'm pretty sure was around before the Hawk II.  ...?  Interesting bit of info if the lawsuit thing really is true.   

 

There are definitely better tents out there for a base camp (Roof Top Tents) but they're much more expensive and I'd have to haul the bike in a hitch hauler instead of the bed of my truck.  Lame.  A MotoVan would be awesome but I already own a truck and don't want to invest in a van build just yet.  Maybe at some point in the future I will. 

 

Dang!  Talking about my tents really makes me want to go camping now!  So glad that I'm at the end of my work rotation tomorrow and I'm headed to Baja over my two weeks off. 

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