Administrators Bryan Bosch Posted May 25, 2016 Administrators My Ride Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 To me, a HUGE factor in riding an ADV bike off-road is know the limitations of your skill, same for your bike, and being able to read terrain. If you can pair up with a superior rider and get lots of seat time in, you'll make a lot of headway. Until a rider can learn to relax on the bike, many situations will continue to be more difficult. Once you get comfortable with the bike moving around under you, you'll really start to improve. I'm a 30+ year self taught dirtbike guy turned ADV'r, but a few years back I took the Shane Watts Dirtwise class. He confirmed that I was doing some things well, but being self taught, had some bad habits too. So, even a long time experienced rider can improved from class time. A lot of my dirt skills mapped over (controls, line selection, balance) but riding a 500lb. bike is very different from a 250lb. dirtbike. So, it's been cool learning how to ride my bike well. Training is great and you should do it, but there is no substitute for seat time IMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappy613 Posted May 26, 2016 My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) For sure dirt skills carry over, even on the larger bikes. There's just limitations of both man and machine hence the purpose of schools and practice to best utilize the two. The last two classes I attended I deliberately shot myself in the foot by taking the smaller bike per the instructor's advice and NOT taking my Tiger AND taking basic skills twice. There unfortunately are literally miles between my xr650l and the Tiger making me actually work harder on the XR. The XR has big vibey single, bog wallow handling,too tall gears and 1/3 the power, not to mention the agony of putting a couple hundred on the slab to the events and back. For the sand pieces no question, XR all the way as you can lower pressures and float over better, but at everything else the Tiger eats it. Smooth triple with 90 horse of flat torque and short-spaced gears wrapped up with WP suspension? No contest. Now one of the guys nobody has brought up yet is DirtFirst and I can speak to the quality of instruction they provide. If I'd put myself in the right class with the right bike (for me) I would have gotten even more than I did but I was still very impressed by Gary La Plante and his staff and ended up learning a few things which stood me in good stead later. All that practice at "wheelies with a purpose" on my Tiger on my own paid good dividends when I needed to get the front up over some punked out wet railroad ties and my Heidies weren't getting much bite in the back. That's specifically what I meant by repetition and practice AFTER the school. Because I had purchased the book while at class I had it to study later and set up my own safe practice routine on my time. So even although I'm a leper pariah and no one will ride with me I could still practice and get better on my own without becoming a casualty that the forestry service needed to attend to. I had practiced enough for it to become second nature and it saved my bacon when it counted. Edited May 26, 2016 by Flappy613 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bryan Bosch Posted May 26, 2016 Administrators My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 At least one thing that I see a fair # of ADV'rs do offroad that hurts them is simply not carrying enough speed. But, that's easier said/done when doing so is outside the comfort zone. These are heavy bikes and often times, momentum is our friend. Couple this with good balance and competent clutch & brake work and so many things just get easier (and more fun!). I see what Birch can do and a KTM 1190R and know how much more capable these bikes really are in the right hands. I"m a bit of a goon, so one thing I'm trying to get better is the wheelie. Dirtbike, no problem... 500lb. ADV bike, just seems so much different. I don't even need this skill a ton, just something that I find fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason R Posted May 26, 2016 My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 At least one thing that I see a fair # of ADV'rs do offroad that hurts them is simply not carrying enough speed. But, that's easier said/done when doing so is outside the comfort zone. These are heavy bikes and often times, momentum is our friend. Couple this with good balance and competent clutch & brake work and so many things just get easier (and more fun!). I see what Birch can do and a KTM 1190R and know how much more capable these bikes really are in the right hands. I"m a bit of a goon, so one thing I'm trying to get better is the wheelie. Dirtbike, no problem... 500lb. ADV bike, just seems so much different. I don't even need this skill a ton, just something that I find fun. At the overland expo i was trying the Rawhyde front wheel lofting class. I think I could only do it 10% of the time. Most of the class was that way. Its a skill to get that front wheel off the ground. The instructor did it easily on his 1200GS. The rest of us struggled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bryan Bosch Posted May 26, 2016 Administrators My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I can get the front up, but haven't been able to carry it much if at all. I think I'm just pussin' out, fearing the hit to the wallet if I crash out. I can loft up on a small log without issue, I just want to be able to carry it a bit of distance. What were some of the key pointers, do's/don'ts they stressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason R Posted May 26, 2016 My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 The technique was off the throttle, let the front forks load up, then lean back and gas it while giving a little pull too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bryan Bosch Posted May 26, 2016 Administrators My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I think the balancing point of my bike is waaaaaay back/up, as in anal puckering way back/up. I've mostly been sitting. Maybe I need to try a few stand-up'ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason R Posted May 26, 2016 My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Oh yes, we were all standing up doing this. He even stressed doing this over cattle guards. He said they cause more flats than you realize. I always hit them at full speed. No more!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bryan Bosch Posted May 26, 2016 Administrators My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I'm proficient at mini wheelies for lightening the front over most stuff for sure. I just want to showboat better like Eric Hall. But in all seriousness, this is a vital technique for off-road work. Thanks for sharing those tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappy613 Posted May 26, 2016 My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 We get kind of lucky here in that right after a coastal storm we get a lot of dropped branches and trees in the FS roads which gives us all a chance to practice lofting it. I've put it over trees and downs up to about 6-8 inches but much past that and we're banging the sump guard and Triumph doesn't like that. But in regards to getting the speed up to get over the loose stuff that's generally the accepted method. You don't want a slapper in the sand or silt with a big bike like a Tiger and they will really plow if you don't get the wheels up. I actually did better in deep, soft gravel on the Tiger with its' updated suspension than with my XR due to its' tendency to wander up front even with a fork brace. On the other hand deep sand is a no no for Tiger comparatively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Bryan Bosch Posted May 26, 2016 Administrators My Ride Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 On the other hand deep sand is a no no for Tiger comparatively. Boy, out my way, if you don't ride that, you're pretty limited terrain-wise. We regularly have to ride sections of sugar sand that is 6 - 10" deep. I can't say it's a "joy" but the bike will do it if you're comfy enough to get her up, riding on top. Having lived in the desert SW, both So Cal and NV, I ended up having to get comfy riding the sand and it really helps in Florida. Where's really tough is when it's been really dry in the 4X4 trucks put ruts all through it. That makes it a lot of work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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